The Radical Christian Church

The results of the Supernatural Outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the early pasts of Acts is very exciting and in there we see how these encounters shaped the early church. Today we are seeing healing in our Sunday meetings and experiencing the Holy Spirit at work which leads me to ask “How is this manifestation of the Holy spirit that we are currently experiencing affecting our lives”?

Signs have a purpose. They are not and end in themselves

When Heaven Invades Earth – (Johnson, When Heaven Invades Earth, 2003)

As I investigate the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in Acts 1 & 2 and again in Acts 3 & 4 I see Luke explaining that after the out pouring we see the gospel preached, people saved and added to the church and then he gives us an insight to how the church then looks as a result. I see their radical attitudes, actions, trust & sacrifice expressed in generosity to one another and there being no needy person among them.

I think that this is a model we, as a Radical Spirit Filled Community, should be adopting today!

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Part 4 – What’s Wrong with The Shack

Read The Previous Articles

Read Part 1
Read Part 2 
Read Part 3 

The Shack – Part 4

This is my final write up on the shack and concludes all that I am wanting to convey regarding this book. I have had much feed back, some I can publish and have done so. Having read the book I think that there are many good aspects of it. It tackles some very difficult issues very well, it has, as I have outlined it has some major doctrinal errors in my opinion there are other areas that I believe that could easy be taken wrongly, but if you look hard enough you can see the deeper meaning if you look for it. For example it is very easy to read The Shack with a critical eye, looking for error, and believe that it is saying that everyone is forgiven.

(Page 192) Papa: “Honey, you asked me what Jesus accomplished on the cross; so now listen to me carefully: through his death and resurrection, I am now fully reconciled to the world”. Mack: “the whole world? You mean those that believe in you, right?” Papa: ” The whole world Mack. All I am telling you is that reconciliation is a two way street, and I have done my part, totally, completely, finally. It is not the nature of love to force a relationship but it is the nature of love to open the way”.

It might appear that Papa (God) is saying that everyone is forgiven, but I am not convinced that is what is being said. God is saying that everything that needed to be done on his part to reconcile us to himself is done in Jesus. That is true! It then takes us, the sinner, to do our part and believe, repent and follow him. He has made away, our part is to take the opportunity offered to us!

I am keen not to go on a witch hunt here, but to simply name the theological errors that I saw as I read the book. I have not re-read the book looking for more errors in order to condemn it or the author. My goal was to simply review the book and determine if there was a basis for me being able to recommend the book or not. My answer is not. That Said, if you want to read it … then read it, but read it knowing that it is not theologically sound throughout.

So in concluding this next section of the book casued me to take a look at my electronic bibles to do a search and the results brought a smile to my face !

Just for Fun!

Papa: “My words are alive and dynamic-full of life and possibility; yours are dead, full of law and fear and judgment.  That is why you won’t find the word responsibility in the Scriptures. “

English Standard Version:            1 Occurrence

New King James Version:             5 Occurrences

New International Version:         13 Occurrences

New American Standard Bible:     4 Occurrences

The Message:                              26 Occurrences

King James Version:                       0 Occurrences

Clearly God only reads the King James Version !

 

Part 3 – What’s Wrong with the Shack

Read The Previous Articales

Read Part 1 The Trinity
Read Part 2 The Trinity

The Shack – Part 3

This is the third part of my thoughts on some of the theological difficulties I have struggled with in being asked to recommend The Shack, particularly to my youth group. In short I thought the book as a whole was really enjoyable but it through up some serious “Red Flags” in my understanding of biblical theology.

Headship, Hierarchy and Order

This is a huge area of possible error and one that needs careful discussion. It all begins with a section of text on page 121 where Mack says “Isn’t one of you more the boss than the other two? … I have always thought of God the father as sort of being the boss and Jesus as the one following orders, you know, being obedient … I am talking about who’s in charge. Don’t you have a chain of command?” Although simplistic these are reasonable questions and statements about the relationships in the trinity. The answers the Shack then provides are, in my opinion, disturbing and wrong.

There are some very weighty topics here! However, they must be looked are carefully and not “glossed over” because they are too complicated.

Order in Trinity – Creation

There is clearly a difference between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in how they relate to creation. Equal yes, but different. As we read the bible we see these differences. Right from the beginning we see that the Father was the one who planned and directed creation. God the Father spoke the creative words throughout Genesis 1 “And God said …” but we know that in the gospel of John that Jesus is referred to as ‘The Word’ of God. “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father” [John 1:14] As we read in verse 1 of John “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made” [John 1:1-3]. So here we see that Jesus is God and is eternal as the father is, but Jesus was the one who carried out these creative instructions. “All things were created through him (Jesus) and for him (Jesus)” [Col 1:16] nowhere in scripture does do we find any evidence of the Son or the Holy Spirit creating through the Father. The father is the originator and the Son is the doer of his will.

Order in Trinity – Redemption

Here too, in the redemption, we see that Jesus was “sent” by God the Father and Jesus “obeyed” the Father. It was God the father that sent his only Son to the world because of his great love for the world [John 3:16, Gal 4:4], but the Father clearly sent the Son. The plan to redeem mankind was, like creation, God the Fathers idea [Ephesians 1:7-10]. Jesus submitted himself to the will of the father [John 6:38] and obeyed him. “and being found in human form, he [Jesus] humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross” [Philippians 2:8]. Obedience is interesting terminology here. This is the same word used in this verse: “Our fathers refused to obey him, but thrust him[God] aside, and in their hearts they turned to Egypt” [Acts 7:39]. Stephen recounts the refusal of the people of Israel to obey God that is to do what God had asked them to do. The only other verse in the New Testament where they same Greek word is used for obey is the one in Philippians 2:8 which refers to Jesus being obedient to God the Father. Clearly this tells us there is some ordering of activities within the trinity.

Careful of our own error!

We need to be careful that in arguing for order in the trinity (Economy of the Trinity) we do not imply that Jesus, or indeed the Holy Spirit is anything other than equal within the trinity. “The Shack” does say this and in challenging the issues of order we must not portray Jesus (Or Holy Spirit) as subordinate in anyway. They are equal in nature, being and attributes.

Whilst we are saying that the trinity are equal in nature, being and attributes we are not saying that the Father, Son and Holy Spirits roles are interchangeable. The Father, as we have discussed is the one who sends, designs, commands etc and the Son is one who obeys, goes as the Father sends and revealing the father to us. As you look at the roles it is wholly appropriate that the Father is one who commands and plans and the Son in one who obeys and goes. Wayne Grudem says this in his book – Systematic Theology “These roles could not have been reversed or the Father would cease to be the Father and the Son would have ceased to be the Son.”. He goes on to say “These relationships are eternal, not something that occurred only in time”. The Son did not become the Son when the father sent him to the earth as a man. He was always the Son!. The bible tells us that as Christians we were chosen by God the Father in God the Son before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:3-4]. This leads us to understand see again these clear roles of the trinity are ordered in eternity past, present & future

“It may be said that there are no differences in deity, attributes or essential nature between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each person is fully God and has all the attributes of God. The only distinctions between the members of the trinity are in the ways they relate to each other and to the rest of creation. In those relationships they carry out roles that are appropriate to each person” (Grudem, April 1994)

Headship & Hierarchy

Sarayu (Holy Spirit): “Mackenzie, we have no concept of final authority among us, only unity” We are in a circle of relationship, not a chain of command … what you are seeing here is relationship without any overlay of power. We don’t need power over the other because we are always looking out for the best. Hierarchy would make no sense among us”.

Whilst we say that the trinity are equal in nature, being and attributes and that there is no subordination there is an issue of headship. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 11:3 the following “But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God” You can argue over terminology but there is clearly a sense of “overship” if you don’t like the word hierarchy.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 (New International Version)

27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Jesus will be made subject to God is a statement of what I am calling “overship” but it is certainly not a “Circle of relationship” as described in The Shack. It is in fact Hierarchy!

The Greek word for “will be subjected” is ‘hupotagasetai’ which is the future passive indicative. This means that it is a future event where Jesus will forever be subjected to the Father.These passages teach that there is indeed a hierarchy within the Trinity in which all three members are equal in nature, yet the principle of headship and submission is perfectly displayed in the Trinity. [Patrick Zukeran Research Associate, Probe Ministries]

But, page 124 of The Shack we read, “So you think that God must relate inside a hierarchy like you do.  But we do not.” This is directly opposing the bible.

There is a clearly a sense of one being over another, but not is a master/slave sense that we see when we talk of being over someone, but being originator of the move and the one caring out the move. A good example of this might be an inventor of a product and that salesman who sells the produce. Both essential, without the inventor there is no product, but without the salesman there is no way anyone would ether know there was a product or get hold of it. Both are essential, they are inextricably linked and equally. Headship is similar. The bible talks of the church being like a body [1 Cor 12:12-31], every part essential but we can’t all be the hands or the eye or the head. However, all the parts are necessary and without the heart for example the body will die, but it is the head who plans and creates and the rest of the body makes it happen. This is true in the trinity as we have already discussed. God the Father plans and speaks and Jesus and Holy Spirit are involved in making it happen, all equal but in that special relationship of headship and hierarchy.

Mack: “but every human institution I can think of , from political to business, even down to marriage, is governed by this kind of thinking (hierarchy)  It is the web of social fabric”. Papa: “Such a waste”. Jesus: “Once you have a hierarchy you need rules to protect and administer it and then you need law and the enforcement of the rules and you end up with some kind of chain of command or a system of order that destroys relationship rather than promotes it. You rarely see or experience relationship apart from power. Hierarchy imposes law and rules and you end up missing the wonder of relationship that we intended for you”.

The Shack here argues that Gods biblical plan for marriage is incorrect because it is based on headship/hierarchy. The bible has clearly set up marriage as a wonderful expression of intimate relationship (a very dim reflection of the trinity – “the two shall become one [Mark 8:10]”) and explains as we have already discussed that the man is the head of the woman [1 Corinthians 11:3].This is not a negative, or a substandard situation but one that God has planned and instituted. It is one based on the same understanding of authority and headship that we have already established is operating within the trinity.

Sarayu (Holy Spirit): “When you choose independence over relationship, you became a danger to each other. Others became objects to be manipulated or managed for your own happiness. Authority, as you usually think of it, is merely the excuse the strong use to make others conform to what they want”. Jesus: “If you have truly learned to regard each other’s concerns as significant as your own, there would be no need for hierarchy”.

The bible clearly teaches headship in the context of the trinity and so clearly it is possible to operate in a way that is distinct and still not be manipulative or overbearing. The Shack is suggesting that Jesus is saying that being in authority over someone or something (a wife or even a church) is mutually exclusive to being able to regard each other’s concerns as significant as your own. This is just what sin and the devil has done headship and biblical authority. These things are not inherently evil in themselves only in the way they have been abused!

 

 

Part 2 – What’s Wrong with the Shack

Read The Previous Articles

Read Part 1 The Trinity 

The Shack – Part 2

This is the second part of my thoughts on some of the theological difficulties I have struggled with in being asked to recommend The Shack, particularly to my youth group. In short I thought the book as a whole was really enjoyable. It tackled some pretty hard core topics such as the trinity, why do bad things happen, death, crime and forgiveness in the form of a story. That said could a recommend this book to people? Well to be honest not without some serious caveats. Would I tell people not to read it? No, I don’t think I would assuming they were a discerning reader able to enjoy the book as a literary piece and not a theological piece. It is for that reason that I would not recommend it to youth because they are not always that discerning and will, i think, read The Shack and then think they understand the Trinity or God as a result and they really won’t, not from this book anyway.

What’s all the fuss about?

Well last time in Part 1I spoke of my concerns with the way the trinity is depicted in terms of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Part 2 continues with the Trinity, but this time looks at Modalism and how, I think, it appears within The Shack

Modalism

Possibly here your first question is “What is Modalism”. Well the simplest way to explain it to say that Modalism states that God is either God the father, or God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. He is not all 3 at once; he appears in one mode or another as a single person. So in the Old Testament he appears a God the Father, then in the Gospels as God the Son and then in the remainder of the New Testament as God the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. It is this subtle doctrine that comes out in the Shack and so contradicts the trinity that the book is desperately trying to explain. The book says on page 99 the following:- “We we three spoke ourselves into existence as the Son of God, we became fully human. We also chose to embrace all the limitations that this entailed. Even though we have always been present in the created universe we now became flesh and blood”

This clearly shows the Modalism in the authors understanding. Again on pages 95-96 we see this Modalistic doctrine surfacing further.

God the Father was not crucified with Jesus

Page 95-96 of the Shack tells of a conversation between Mack and God (Papa). Mack notices scars on Papa’s wrists and Papa explains that on the cross “we were together”. When Mack rightly challenges this and asks “At the cross? Now, wait, I thought you left him – you know – ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?” Papa then replies “You misunderstand the mystery there. Regardless of what he felt at that moment, I never left him”

This is a huge error! For 3 reasons

1. God is spirit and has no flesh or bones as I have already explained in Part 1 and therefore has no wrists either.
2. It speaks of Modalism in that God was Jesus at this point and thus experienced the crucifixion. This speaks of the consecutive modes of Modalism, not the simultaneous nature of biblical trinity.
3. It suggests that Jesus was in error as he believed that God had turned away from him (forsaken him). Either Jesus knew that God had not forsaken him and thus he was lying or he was lying when he said “For I do not speak of my own accord, but the father who sent me commanded me what to day and how to say it” [John 12:49]. Jesus clearly said “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” [Matt 27:46, Mark 15:34]) which leaves us to conclude that Jesus was a liar or God really did forsake him and leave him. Hebrews 4:15 tells us that Jesus was without sin and so could not have lied. This leaves us with the fact that God was not with Jesus on the cross and therefore clearly shows The Shack to be in error on this point.

 

PART 3 Coming Soon ……

 

 

 

What’s Wrong with the Shack

The Shack – Part 1

Overall

I thought the book as a whole was really enjoyable. It tackled some pretty hard core topics such as the trinity, why do bad things happen, death, crime and forgiveness in the form of a story. The main character, “Mack”, is a father who takes his kids camping while his wife goes away. On the trip his youngest daughter is abducted and murdered. The story follows the emotions, thoughts and spiritual journey of Mack as he meets God and gets some answers to the many questions he has.

I have heard so much spoken about this book. Some for and some against. Some say it is a “Must Read” others say “If you haven’t read it … DON’T” So what is all the fuss about? I read it to make up my own mind and I think to be honest I have mixed feelings.

I really enjoyed reading the book, but to be honest I enjoyed the Da Vinci Code too, anyway I found the story gripping, compelling even and so read in just a day or two. I had to keep reading to find out what happened. The story is very emotive and so really draws the reader in. It is the that gives me some concerns as there were one or two things in the book that did not sit all that comfortably with me. That said the book does tackle some very difficult issues very well which then leads me to my “mixed feelings position”. This leads me to the point where I must ask “Becasue there are good bits, do they out weigh the poor bits”. There are good bits in the book of mormon, but I would never recomend one reads it!

I thought I would write down some of my concerns here and see what everyone else thinks too. At the end I will then put everything into a paper (and make it avaialble on the blog of course).

So please let me know your thoughts too.

Today I will look at the most obvious area of contention …. that of the Trinity

The Trinity

Let us first of all look at how the biblical theology presents the Trinity to us.

The Trinity is “God eternally exists as three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and each person is fully God, and there is one God”. (Grudem, Systematic Theology)

Ok let’s look at “The Shack” and compare that to our definition of the trinity.

       I.            God eternally exists as three persons

a.     I think “The Shack” does OK here. It clearly shows that the trinity is made up of 3 distinct people (Papa, Jesus and Sarayu) But then I think most of us get the “3 people part”. It’s how they are all one were our brains start to hurt.

     II.            Father

a.     Now this is where the book traverses into heresy in my view as it depicts “God the Father” as an African-American woman (Mother). We are skating on the very thin part of the ice here as we move away from how God chooses to describe himself in the bible. Whilst the book does “try” to give some explanation as to why God is depicted as a woman this is simply wrong as the bible gives us no indication. In fact the bible tells us that “God is spirit” [John 4:24] and so is not gendered because he is spirit. Jesus tells us in John 6:46 “not that anyone has seen the father except he who is from God” which tells us two things. First of all that no one has seen God other than Jesus and Jesus refers to him as Father and so I believe it extremely inappropriate to depict him in any way other than is reveled in scripture.  We are looking at the “invisible qualities and divine nature” [Rom 1:20] of God here. The bible reveals the divine nature of God as being that of “Father”. Jesus refers to God as Father only, never mother!

b.     We also move into the whole discussion of making a likeness of God. What does that mean? Well, it is the point that we are not to try and take the invisible God [1 Tim 1:17, Heb 11:27] and attempt to make him visible. That is to create a representation of God that we look on as God. The second commandment [Exodus 20:4-5] tells us that we “shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them”. This is where I would have problems with statues, or paintings of God. Even if they are used to help us focus on God I believe the bible clearly tells us that God is a jealous God and will not share himself with anything.

c.      Jesus is the “image of the invisible God” [Colossians 1:15]. This is the only acceptable image of God that the bible permits that of Jesus. As Jesus was visible then I have less of a problem with creating images or representations of Jesus because he did come to earth as a man. Likewise the Holy Spirit. Clearly the Holy Spirit was made visible in the form of a dove, or tongues of fire and so again has been made visible. However, God the Father is a different ball game. We cannot take the creator God and try and make him part of creation by comparing him to something he created or made by something we, a created being, created. We are not to compare God to anything. God says through the prophet Isaiah “To whom then will you compare me, that I should be like him?” (Isaiah 40:25) Paul warns the Romans that “For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man … they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator” [Rom 1:21-23,25]. As “God is spirit” [John 4:24] we cannot render an image, a picture or a look-a-like without falling foul of all this scripture.

  III.            Son

a.     The book here does fine in depicting Jesus as a man of Jewish decent, a carpenter, fully human and fully God.

  IV.            Holy Spirit

a.     Again the book takes a stab at describing the Holy Spirit and a shimmering, free spirit kind of person.

 

Read the next article in the series … Part 2 – What’s Wrong with the Shack

 

Your View

   

HEALING! Stories of people in HORSHAM being Healed this week

It was so exciting this week at church as people were healed! I was preaching at my Church, Kings Church Horsham, this week and during the worship there were several word of knowledge about healing. Even some primary school kids from our kids work came into the adult meeting to speak out about what God had shown them and to pray for the sick. I was really moved by what God was doing and so as I began to speak I felt I should ask anyone who was sick to stand so as a church we could pray for them.

This led into a great opportunity to talk on Acts Chapter 3 & 4 as this was the same model as we were experiencing right there in our church meeting!.

You can LISTEN to the sermon here, or you can download it for free to listen on your iPod here.

Following the Sermon a lady testified to being healed of Carpel Tunnel Syndrome !

Can I Marry a non-Chrsitian

We live in a world where divorce is a fact of most people’s lives. Whilst the government would have us believe that the divorce statistics are dropping year on year, the truth of the matter is that less and less people are being married and so do not need a divorce thus reducing the rate of divorce.

As a christian what can we do to ensure that we can avoid being one of these national divorce statistics? Well I think the bible gives us loads of advice on how to have a healthy marriage, but the steps you can take to build a health Christian marriage starts long before the wedding day. It starts, possibly, even before you start dating.

Your choice of partner is essential. Not in terms of compatibility as the secular world would have you believe, but in terms of where they are in their relationship with God. The bible, I believe, clearly tells us that we should not marry, or even date a non-Christian!

This is, as you would imagine a very big topic which I can not go into in detail here but you can read a paper I have written on this (download for free here) or if you would prefer you can LISTEN FOR FREE to a talk I did on this subject or DOWNLOAD FOR FREE and listen on your iPod.

Any one for Miracles? – Response to Comments

 Here is a response to the comments left on my previous post “Any one for Miracles?”

Blog Comment

Jesus was not God, he had the holy spirit of God; was born as a miracle of Virgin Mary and was the God’s “word” and prophet on earth. Jesus says in the Bible :”Do not pray to me, but to the “Father” (God). If Jesus himself was the God, he would say, “Pray to me!”

As for the miracles, we live in a universum of miracles.

With or without praying, God watches us, helps us, punishes us, as needed. We are not alone.

Best wishes for lots of miracles to you !

 

 

My Reply

Well there is an opener for you “Jesus was not God”. What can we deduce from that? Are you saying that he was not God, but now is? I’m guessing not.

Jesus was God

There is so much evidence in the bible that Jesus was God.

Jesus Makes Himself Equal to God

John 5:18 (English Standard Version)

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus Makes Himself Equal to God

John 8:58 (English Standard Version)

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

This is particularly interesting in that by Jesus using the phrase “I am”, which is clearly grammatically incorrect, is equating himself with God (Yahweh). This would have been easily
recognisable by his Jewish listeners as the part of their scriptures (Our Old Testament) God tells them his name

Exodus 3:14 (English Standard Version)

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

There is no doubt here that Jesus was equating himself with Yahweh the God of the Jews that is with God himself

Jesus Says He & God are One!

John 10:30 (English Standard Version)

I (Jesus) and the Father are one.”

The Apostle Paul Confirms This

Colossians 2:9 (English Standard Version)

For⁾ in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

I think this is pretty conclusive! There are other scriptures too!

 

Jesus Had the Holy Spirit of God

It seems that we agree that Jesus had the Holy Spirit of God as I think that the bible clearly states that.

Luke 3:22 (English Standard Version)

and the Holy Spirit descended on him [Jesus] in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

Luke 4:1 (English Standard Version)

And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness

Jesus Was born as a Miracle of Virgin Mary

No argument there!

Matthew 1:18 (English Standard Version)

Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:35 (English Standard Version)

And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Jesus was the God’s “word”

Still agreeing with you here as the bible agrees with you. Below we read that “the Word” became flesh and dwelt among us. That is the word became Jesus as a Man

John 1:14-18 (English Standard Version)

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15( John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

However, I think that whilst we are in agreement that Jesus was God’s “Word” this statement contradicts the opening statement that “Jesus was not God” as the opening verse of same chapter clearly states that this “word of God” who you agree was Jesus is also God, not a prophet of God, but God himself.

John 1:1 (English Standard Version)

 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Clearly if you believe that Jesus was “the word” of God then you must accept that he WAS GOD!

Jesus Said “Do Not Pray to Me”

T o simply state “Jesus says in the Bible :’Do not pray to me, but to the ‘Father’ (God). If Jesus himself was the God, he would say, ‘Pray to me!’” and not provide any references to support
your claim is not all that fair. However, I guess you are refereeing to when the disciples asked Jesus how they should pray and he answers

Matthew 6:9 (English Standard Version)

Pray then like this
“Our Father in heaven, hallowed be
your name

Agreed here was directing the disciples to pray to the father (God). However this is not the only passage in the Gospels that explain prayer. In John 14:1-14 we read that Jesus declares that he is the only way to God (John 14:6) and that he will soon go to be with the father. He then explains that when he has gone to be with the father that if we ask him for anything he will do it.

John 14:13-14 (English Standard Version)

13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

This can only refer to prayer as he is talking about when he has gone to be with the Father and is no longer with the disciples in body.

As for the miracles, we live in a universum of miracles

Not sure how to respond to this as “Universum” is not even a word according to dictionary.com and a search of Google gives a Branding company or an Australian Melodic
Death Metal band which in itself sounds like an oxymoron if ever there was one! Anyway, to say we live in a world of miracles then I guess at one level we do. The fact that the earth keeps spinning; that the universe continues at all is a miracle in my book. So God thus sustains everything and is performing miracles constantly. I was however referring to specific miracles following prayer to
Yahweh of the bible the great God above all gods. The one true god. I am referring to praying for the sick and seeing them healed. Now Jesus referred to this in Mark 16:18 that various things will accompany those that believe in him (Jesus) and specifically cites healing. There are numerous other examples of Jesus healing the sick, and many others throughout the New Testament. Jesus disciples after being empowered by the Holy Spirit healed the sick in Acts. So I am fully expectant that as I continue to pray and pursue opportunities to pray for the sick that I will see people healed! Miracles in my hand!

 

 

Any one for Miracles ?

I believe in seeing miracles today! Do you ?

As I read my bible I see things that amaze me. I read that Jesus was fully God, and fully man. As a man he only had access to God in the same way we do. Through the Holy Spirit. Yet he said that we would do GREATER things than he did! Wow … I have access to that same Holy Spirit and should expect to see miracles in my own hands the same way the disciples did at the feeding of the 5000.

You can download a FREE MP3 of a talk entitled Releasing the Prophetic, Seeing Signs & Wonders from the Kings Church Horsham Web Site